Archives for November 2013

Good Morning Vietnam!!

I am Alex and looking to learn as much as possible from the world of NLP. Please check out my thread on ‘over thinking’ because the more perspectives on this the better and it seems to me this site was created both to spread NLP and to help people. Great forum by the way.


p.s. – i refer here as pink floyd out of admiration for the group who inspired me to love music, (that makes sense to me!). Dave Gilmour and Roger Waters especially provide an interesting dual-genious so apart from eachother’s that it actually works: opposites attract syndrome..

Good Morning Vietnam!!

Over Thinking

Dear all,
I have read Rep Licon’s thread on playing music in one’s head and I do the same. I feel a little like Stephen Woolston with respect to the clarity of the notes and distinctiveness and volume of my favourite parts for example. This is not an problem for me, but I do have a serious issue with over-complicating my thought process. My mind sees it as necessary and I trained myself to go through what I call ‘levels’ for a number of different reasons. This affects all areas of my life and as with Rep Licon it can be both massively helpful (as it was developed to be) and can also leave me metaphorically paralysed and ‘stuck in thinking’.
Even here, explaining this issue, I tend to over write and under-explain if that makes any sense.
I will try to be more clear, probably the best way to remain succinct is through examples:

If I want to go and see a friend I haven’t seen for a while I’ll weigh up pros and cons to begin with. Then I will rate them and however one sided the outcome of this weighing up process I will then go a ‘level’ deeper. This could involve the ‘opportunity cost’ (looking at what else I could do instead and putting value to that) of seeing this friend, or looking at all the problems that could occur when i’m with that person like bad weather or what I would do if they yawned at what I said or started getting aggressive or anything. The easiest way to explain is to say that this process is very quick (as it has been developed over many years) and I cover what I see as to be every angle. Then, once that is done I take more time to try and take it a level deeper. Then I go through the process from the other person’s point of view and do the process all over again. Working out what could possibly annoy them about me, what character traits they seemed to like and dislike of mine last time we met, and trying to find ways to bring out more of the side of me that they would appreciate. Then it gets deeper but I would find it hard to explain in under a few thousand words.

There are hundreds of examples of this and it is not that I am insecure that I would try to bring my positive characteristics out, and not because I am a fake person, but to try and get the most (and give the most) out of this possible meeting.

I attempt to put heavy levels of logic behind everything and believe things very strongly when I have ‘proved’ them in my head: for example that smoking is for the weak and all you have to do is just stop (I was on 40-50 a day), or that religion is a clutch for the weak formulated by everyone’s subconcious/inner need to look up to things (born from looking up and copying parents) being confused with the need to worship. Or that people who are superstitious have a gap in their thinking stopping logic allowing them to realise that breaking a mirror is in fact no more bad luck than breaking a window or chair or arm for example. Or people who are sexist in general: it’s a weakness of the mind born from insecurities.
Also, one of my main issues is ‘taking the piss’…anyone who does this in almost any circumstance is doing it out of insecurity. i.e. – "you fat cow": basically the mind saying: I am not fat and wouldn’t it make me look big to call this woman fat. This extends in a slightly different way to ALMOST all circumstances and was proved by my insecure friend (he takes the mickey constantly) who I told this view to and he responded by taking the piss AGAIN and saying "ooh is this because I am insecure?". He thought this a clever response but in fact it simply served as a mildly transparent defence mechanism (probably partly led by the subconscious) as a measure to disprove my point because it made him feel uneasy because a large part of him knew it to be true. Obviously if admitted he would then have to face either admitting feeling insecure or he would stop taking the piss (if he followed logic correctly).
My point here is that my over thinking leads me to what some readers of this may view as a personal rant, but in fact is how my mind operates all the time. The problem for me has become almost unmanageable: I mean how am I supposed to live in a world where social norms require the most important thing in conversation (often) to be to make people laugh? And the most common way to be humorous (again often but not always by any means) is to ‘take the piss’. I know the easy answer is not to take it all too seriously but this misses my point entirely. When Joe takes the piss out of John for example, it is not John I feel sorry for but Joe. I hope that helps explain a little. Then when I explain this to people they do not think deeply enough about it and respond in an illogical way with something like "you don’t know how to take a joke".

This ‘taking the piss’ idea is one of hundreds (if not thousands) of issues and as they grow, I find it increasingly difficult to deal with people. To me, how can one go on living in a certain way if that way proves to be illogical (other than by creating fake positives).

Anyway I have written a lot and have a lot more to say but in summary I am asking for ways to deal with this. It seems impossible to know which direction to go and the idea of an on/off switch to my thought process seems like I am lying to myself by creating something that isn’t there (which I will not do out of principle).
My most recent issue is with a girl whom I have been friends with for many years and now things may start to develop into a serious relationship but I can’t stop thinking of pros and cons of seeing her and what our kids would look like and be like and would she be a good mother. All these ‘normal’ questions (that you may consider normal for example) come onto my mind and in answering them, more complicated things come into my head and then deeper and deeper. Meanwhile all I want to do is ‘go with the flow’ and feel rather than think. You see how frustrating this is? To make it worse, I developed this over thinking partly because I feel too much anyway and don’t know if I could deal with another tough break up.

Any thoughts whatsoever would be much appreciated, I hope one day to come across someone who thinks as deeply as I do. Just as a side point: I am not obssessive compulsive at all but have an odd concentration span. Years ago at school and later university I found that I always concentrated more in double/longer lessons. I like to play chess for 15-20 hours (with water breaks and maybe 1 meal break) but find after the break it takes up to an hour to get back into things. I can talk about a topic I feel passionate about for 10-15 hours with nothing but water and most people use the words ‘too intense’ when describing my conversational form, (especially my father).

Also I spend very little time thinking about myself because it seems after some experience in deep thinking that almost everything that one thinks of oneself is already there and it is effectively a waste of time. This leads to hours and hours of thought on all my friends and family, why Megan Fox is so attractive, why some illogical scientists attribute good looks with symmetry of the face (you can be symmetrically ugly), how so many people were brainwashed by Hitler, why so many people like to be treated ‘mean’ in relationships (usually girls, but some boys too), why can so few people run and swim very well (I am a sprinter but can’t swim fast at all, however much I swim), why do people take so much rubbish from mere coincidence, why are people so blindly stubborn with their beliefs (not just religion) – but in the face of clear, unequivocal evidence to the contrary they still stick to their view. I mean on this point, although I believe my beliefs strongly, one of my favourite things is to be proved incorrect. Then I can learn and re-adapt my thought process, I believe we never stop learning.

Anyway if anyone has had the patience to read all of this and feels they can add some insight on anything at all please don’t hesitate to reply. As to clarify: my main issue is that I want control over when I over think and when I don’t as well as the wisdom to know when it is beneficial to do so and how deep is appropriate.


p.s. – music relaxes me a lot and Comfortably Numb’s guitar work, California Dreaming’s infectious rhythm and Chopin’s piano (as well as Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata) baffle me so much that sometimes I can almost not think in awe of their beauty Which can only be a good thing..(?)

Over Thinking

For Chris Morris & Others – Studying at the Feet of the Masters

For Chris Morris (& Others) – how did you manage to afford to train with so many of the best people in NLP – Richard Bandler, Eric Robbie, Michael Neill, etc?

As I’d love to do the same but simply cannot afford it, and I’m sure others on here wished they could also.

Did you train with someone or certain people then deal with clients and use that to fund studying with others? Or some of them trained you or allowed you to attend courses for free? Or you were well off anyway and could afford to do it before getting into NLP (rumours you were involved in the Great Train Robbery and used funds from that to fund NLP study remain unproven at present).

I’d like to train with Richard Bandler, John Grinder, Eric Robbie, etc but simply cannot afford it. In the UK courses with Richard Bandler with Meta NLP and NLP Life Training are seriously expensive, same for courses with John Grinder. Not to mention if you are travelling, serious extra expense to travel and for hotels, etc.

You don’t need to study with the most well known names or founders of NLP of course, to learn NLP well and become an excellent practitioner but many would love to do it if they could. Studying with different people in any field is definitely great thing to do.

For Chris Morris & Others – Studying at the Feet of the Masters

Trouble Paying Attention Due to Music Playing in My Head :)

Hey, so I do this thing where there’s always music playing in my head. It’s not the annoying "oh no it’s crappy song stuck in my head" phenomenon, though. It’s actually usually really great songs that I’m really into at the time.

Now that’s fine and dandy when I’m walking home from work and it takes 45 minutes – don’t need to carry headphones around… But it often gets in the way of interactions with people. It makes me behave in a very ADD fashion. If I’ve got a really compelling song in my head, then I’ve basically got the attention span of a gnat. The effect is that someone might be speaking to me, and I’ll totally zone out, unless they’re amazing at speaking and maintaining my attention. Very few people do that, though, so I end up having trouble focusing on what people are saying to me sometimes.

The question is, what are ways of dealing with this? So far, I’ve tried to visualize a volume knob so I can turn it down, but that doesn’t really work. It works while I’m consciously trying to turn it down, but then I get distracted by THAT instead. Also tried some "being present" exercises, like focusing some attention on your feet, etc. but then I’m just distracted by the exercise. :)

What are some other ways to deal with this? I guess the "attention span" is the big thing, and the music seems to be the main blocker, but I’m not sure if that’s really the case… just my #1 culprit at the moment. Maybe it would be more useful to cultivate the ability to tune out the music (because by default, I am now tuning out the person, and it would be useful to be able to just choose whatever I decide is more useful).

Trouble Paying Attention Due to Music Playing in My Head :)


Published: October 19, 1982

WHEN children under detention at the San Bernardino County Probation Department in California become violent, they are put in an 8-foot by 4-foot cell with one distinctive feature – it is bubble gum pink. The children tend to relax, stop yelling and banging and often fall asleep within 10 minutes, said Paul E. Boccumini, director of clinical services for the department.

This approach to calming manic and psychotic juveniles contrasts sharply with the use of brute force favored as little as three years ago. ”We used to have to literally sit on them,” said Mr. Boccumini, a clinical psychologist. ”Now we put them in the pink room. It works.”

Not all psychologists are quite so sure; many, to put it mildly, remain skeptical. Nonetheless, officials at an estimated 1,500 hospitals and correctional institutions across America have become sufficiently convinced of the pacifying effect of bubble gum pink to color at least one room that shade.

Passive pink, as it is also called, is perhaps the most dramatic example, and certainly the most controversial, of many attempts to use light and color to affect health and behavior. Already, there are enough color schemes to spark nightmares about mind control: red to increase appetite and table turnover in restaurants, ultraviolet to reduce cavities and spur children’s I.Q.’s, and blue to swell the ratio of female chinchilla babies to males.

In industrial societies whose members spend more and more time in enclosed areas under artificial lights, any effect of color and light becomes important. And now that man is primed to build artificial habitats under the seas or in outer space, totally isolated from sunlight or totally exposed to it, the urgency of understanding the effect of artificial light can only become critical. As a result the ancient and once discredited field of chromotherapy has been rejuvenated. Many scientists have become convinced that light has a far greater impact on health and behavior than previously thought. (Chromotherapy is now called photobiology or color therapy to distinguish it from the once-popular work of Victorian quacks.)

”It seems clear that light is the most important environmental input, after food, in controlling bodily function,” reported Richard J. Wurtman, a nutritionist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Several experiments have shown that different colors affect blood pressure, pulse and respiration rates as well as brain activity and biorhythms. As a result, colors are now used in the treatment of a variety of diseases.

Within the past decade, for instance, baths of blue light have replaced blood transfusions as the standard treatment for about 30,000 premature babies born each year with potentially fatal neonatal jaundice. Further, because the blue light irritates nurses working in these wards, many hospitals have added gold lamps to soothe their staffs.

Meanwhile, in England, London’s Blackfriars bridge was repainted blue in an attempt to reduce the number of people who commit suicide by jumping from it. The Soviet Union, one of the leaders in photobiology, showers coal miners with ultraviolet, which they believe prevents black lung disease, and supplements the fluorescent lights of schoolrooms with ultraviolet lamps.

The result, said Faber Birren, a color consultant for industry, is that ”children grow faster than usual, work ability and grades are improved and catarrhal infections are fewer.” Mr. Birren has published hundreds of articles and books on color and is widely considered the most authoritative source on the subject.

In the United States, ultraviolet has become a standard treatment for psoriasis. And white fluorescent light, in conjunction with photosensitizing drugs, is widely used to help heal herpes sores. More controversially, several municipalities are experimenting with passive pink to stop graffiti, while football coaches try the color in visitors’ dressing rooms, hoping to debilitate their opponents.

Though doctors and researchers may differ over how much is too much, they agree that some portions of the electromagnetic spectrum -such as X-rays, microwaves and ultraviolet rays – have significant effects on health. But by and large they reject such suggestions for visible light.

For example, Richard Wener, an environmental psychologist at the Polytechnic Institute of New York, said the claims made for passive pink were inflated. ”People love to see a magic bullet,” he said. ”It strikes me as very unlikely that we’ll find such a simple solution to very complex problems. In the real world, we usually find that the magical is fantastical.”

Some skepticism may be owing to the scars left by 19th-century color healers, who claimed to cure everything from constipation to meningitis with glass filters. Nor has photobiology’s roots in mysticism, which empowered color with symbolism and magic, added to its credibility.

In addition, most color studies have been psychological, focusing on how light and color may affect behavior. Assertions about physiological effects have not, at least until recently, been based on strict and scientifically designed research. Mr. Birren also asserts that the training of 20th-century doctors makes them favor ”pills and surgery” and ”shots and prescriptions” over such cures as color therapy.

Many color therapists complain that their work is dismissed out of hand. John Ott, a retired banker and a leading photobiologist who directs the Environmental Health and Light Research Institute in Sarasota, Fla., said he has been called ”a crackpot” for suggesting experiments on the relationship between color and behavior.

Color therapists themselves disagree about why and how color acts as they believe it does. Mr. Birren, who has concentrated on the psychological effects of color, said he does not believe those effects are directly physiological. As designers and interior decorators have discovered, color sets a mood; this in turn, Mr. Birren said, affects health because as many as half of modern man’s diseases may have a psychosomatic component.

But Alexander Schauss, director of the American Institute for Biosocial Research, said color had a direct physiological impact. The electromagnetic energy of color, he said, interacts in some still unknown way with the pituitary and pineal glands and the hypothalamus, deep in the brain, These organs regulate the endocrine system, which controls many basic body functions and emotional responses, such as aggression.

”Color very definitely has a physiological effect,” said Harold Wohlfarth, who is president of the German Academy of Color Science and a photobiologist at the University of Alberta. In an experiment at the Elves Memorial Child Development Centre, a private school for handicapped children in Edmonton, Alberta, he found that light had the ”identical” impact on the blood pressure, pulse and respiration rates of two blind children as on seven students with normal sight.

In the study, reported in the International Journal of Biosocial Research (Volume 3, No. 1), the walls of the schoolroom were changed from orange and white to royal and light blue. A gray carpet was installed in place of an orange rug. Finally, the fluorescent lights and diffuser panels were replaced with full-spectrum lighting.

As a result, Professor Wohlfarth reported, the children’s mean systolic blood pressure dropped from 120 to 100, or nearly 17 percent, The children were also better behaved and more attentive and less fidgety and aggressive, according to the teachers and independent observers. When the room was returned to its original design, however, the readings gradually increased and the children once again became rowdy, he said.

Professor Wohlfarth said the minute amounts of electromagnetic energy that compose light affect one or more of the brain’s neurotransmitters, chemicals that carry messages from nerve to nerve and from nerve to muscle. Several experiments on rats and other small mammals already have provided evidence, he said, that light striking the retina influences the pineal gland’s synthesis of melatonin, a hormone that has been found to help determine the body’s output of serotonin, a neurotransmitter. The precise role of the hormone, however, remains to be established.

As part of a $500,000 study of the effect of light on pupils in four schools in Edmonton, Professor Wohlfarth is trying to identify which of the brain’s thousands of neurotransmitters, besides serotonin, is affected by electromagnetic energy.

”Perhaps these are new beginnings,” concluded Mr. Birren. ”The magical properties of light and color, granted by men since the earliest of times, accepted, renounced and accepted again through the ages, have forever held fascination. It would be delightful, of course, if a thing of such psychological beauty – color – also held a mundane role in human physiological well-being.”

New York Times, Published: October 19, 1982

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only.

Maximum Power,

Dr. Dave Hill, DCH

“All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them.”
-Walt Disney

Filed under: Hypnosis, <a href="”>Hypnotherapy, Hypnotism, Hypnotist


Hi from Leeds

Hi there everyone,

my name is Christy and I am a self-employed software developer based in Leeds, UK.

I have not (as yet) studied NLP in any formal way, but have read some 50+ books on NLP, Hypnosis, Persuasion etc etc… including most of the Bandler and Grinder stuff, and some others.

I am hoping to get some cash together and take a practitioner course very soon – I’m actually going on a freebie 2 day course next week in Manchester run by NLP Excellence. If it’s what I hope it to be, i’ll be happy to study with them.

If anyone has any experience of working with this company, or heard anything good, or bad, about them I’d be very interested to know…

I’m joining this forum mainly to look for anyone in the Leeds area who would be happy to meet up, just to discuss the topic in general, or maybe a local study group etc

all the best


Hi from Leeds

The Limbic System and Mental Illness

This is uniquley mine and i am happy with it for now as it goes some way against the pro-psychiatry agrument I have been making on this forum until now. This is in part thanks to the provocation of Joergen.

Three of the major presenting problems with doctors and psychologists could be said to be anger, anxiety/panic, and depression. These are powerful hindrances that people will self medicate for or are given drugs for by psychiatrists.

My simple theory is that these are not in fact chemical imbalances but natural limbic system responses we ignore at our peril. We have all read about the fight or flight mechanism based in the mammalian limbic system. We now have added a third category belonging to our ancestors, that of freezing. So the three F’s of fight, flight and freeze become anger, anxiety and depression. In our modern times the "enemy" may not be a lion prowling the high street but the car cutting us up when we are late to a meeting. or the constant horror stories from our newspapers and television sets. And finally a sense of total powerlessness/hoplessness over our environment (external locus of control) leading to the most crippling of responses, the freeze response, or depression.

What if the solution to anger where to control the controllables. To look at ones values, beliefs, boundaries and negotiate the threat. To use the anger in a positive direction, say exercising or commitment to winning.
What if the solution to anxiety were self knowledge in the areas of "away from" and maybe jogging or running.
And depression was movement once again with an emphasis on moving to cause from effect. Gaining some control back.

Overly simplistic? Anger=fight response….anxiety=flight response….depression=freeze response. Could the answers be with our ancestors and the limbic system in a left hemisphere (neo frontal cortex) "civilised" world.

The Limbic System and Mental Illness

Hypnotherapy can hold the key to answer many problems

But many people are turning to hypnotherapy for some serious problems. Could the key to losing weight, reducing stress, even stopping smoking be found in this

Hypnotherapy can hold the key to answer many problems

Are Your Parents Nagging Too Much?

Dear Parents and Teens,

Most of our recent newsletters are brief case studies. This one is very different.

This month Jeff decided to go all out and much further in depth. He’s directly addressed an issue that strikes very close to the heart for many teens and their parents: The conflict that often emerges between what parents want for their teens and what their teens wants for themselves.

You’ll find this newsletter is a bit longer, more intense and more personal. It should also take you to a whole new level of understanding what it is that we offer in HeroPath For Teens™. Here is the link: –…h-Sept2010.pdf

There are still a few spaces remaining for the 24 – 26 September workshop, and the 19-21 November workshop. All our fees are going up in 2011. Attend now to take advantage of the at the 2010 discounted price for the next 7 days, plus the additional one-on-one and group coaching that will be offered to new attendees at no additional charge.

Remember, we 100% Guarantee that we will deliver what we promise and that this will be one of the most useful and valuable weekends of your teen’s life.

Let others know too! It is worth more people knowing – kind of ‘Big Picture’ contribution!

Contact me to sign up and to learn more.

Des Barry
Founder, HeroPath For Teens, UK

Are Your Parents Nagging Too Much?

Other Proteus Mind Machine

Back in 1993 I headed into unknown territory, an obscure occult book shop in Monmouth Street London. I had heard they had taken stock of the latest gadget from America which was making some unusual claims and was being backed up by science. The frequency follow on effect was promising deep zen like states at the push of a button. And so i purchased my first light and sound mind machine.

Jump forward to 2008 and the technology has come along way. I decided to update and chose a mid range product, the Proteus. Complete with dual colour LED’s, allowing for a range of combined colour effects, and a very impressive sound card. 50 preset programmes and an audio cd with specially embedded music that would allow for synchronisation between the music and the light frames. Options to create my own programmes or download from a website.

The more I use this gadget the more impressed I become. It really works a treat and continues to become more effective the more i get used to using it. I have used it to sleep after those nights out fuelled by red bull and vodka :blush: or enter a range of states, at the push of a button. The subtle shifts in consciousness of some of the programmes were underestimated by me at first. Some are much less subtle than others.

This is a product that works immediately but will take years of experimenting with happily.:applause:

Ivor of Meditations uk can be found posting on this forum and i have had a speedy, friendly and valuable service ordering spare proteus light frames from him. If anybody is curious i have embedded the web site for this product with its description below.

MeditationsUK – Proteus, The UK’s Leading Supplier

Other Proteus Mind Machine